The EO Visionary Voices Podcast

Brent Peterson (00:00.994)
Welcome to this episode of EO Voices. Today I have Jason Kramer. He is the founder of Cultivize. Jason, go ahead, do a much more elegant introduction for yourself. Tell us your day-to-day role and give us one of your passions in life.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (00:15.419)
Sure, so day to day I'm the founder of Cultivize here in the Hudson Valley, New York. My quick background is coming from the world of advertising agencies as a designer, morphing into data and people like how did that happen? But we could talk about that a little bit. My day to day is really helping businesses understand the inefficiencies that are happening, whether it be on the side of sales, the side of marketing and bridging the gap between all the data they have.

to be able to make important decisions more impactful for their business. And a lot of that is really focused around what type of technology they're using. A lot of it stems from CRM, but we dive into some other things which we could talk about today and look forward to having that conversation.

Brent Peterson (01:00.046)
And how about a passion? What's your passion outside of work?

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (01:02.801)
Oh, passion. I would say that, you know, I'm not too far as I mentioned in the Hudson Valley. I have a boat on the Hudson River. So when it's nice and unfortunately, I just took the boat out two days ago, but getting on the boat is my passion and the marinas 10 minutes from the office. So if I could sneak away, you know, for lunch, I will. But, you know, that's that's my pleasure is just going out there on the river.

Brent Peterson (01:26.338)
Yeah, awesome, that's great. So Jason, before we get started, you have volunteered to be part of the free joke project. I'm just gonna tell you joke. Just give me a rating eight through 13. So here it is. There's a new movie coming out about mobile homes. I just saw the trailer.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (01:33.828)
Okay.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (01:44.497)
Will give that I'll give that an 11 and I'm gonna tell you why I'm gonna give it an 11 if that's okay my wife Loves like the first grader joke kind of like in a realm and I would say that's like a great You know kind of first second grader joke, so I'll put that into the bucket. So well done Yeah, absolutely

Brent Peterson (02:03.553)
That's awesome, one step above kindergarten, I appreciate that. All right, so let's talk, you mentioned data, which I think is really important, and data's even more important nowadays when we have access to to LLMs, right? And people are seeing LLMs as this generative thing that help them write blog posts, but really there's more important things in that data part, and that's how you can use your data. But if you don't collect and,

If you don't collect your data to start with, you're way behind. And I think a lot of people don't understand that part of it. give us a 10,000 foot view of where you're coming from in terms of data, collecting data, CRMs, and some of the other processes that you're incorporating.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (02:51.569)
So let me start off by two things that really led me into the world of CRM. First being that Nealy, and this isn't something I made up, Harvard Business Review years ago did a study to really evaluate, we were talking before we started the pre-call about HubSpot and there's thousands of CRMs and we're HubSpot partner amongst other partners and the review was basically evaluating like why do CRMs fail, right? They're amazing technologies, but what's the culprit?

And what they found out was that nearly 70 % of businesses will fail at implementing their CRM because they don't know what they're doing. Same reason you're bringing a car to a mechanic, you know, to get the engine looked at or to get the engine fixed. You're not a mechanic, right? And try to figure it out on your own. You know, you may eventually get there, you probably won't do it the right way and it's going to cost you a lot of time and money. And so that was one catapult for me to say, well, that's something that I understand.

and I could help people understand what's wrong with their CRM or which CRM they need. And the other thing that really led me to this was another amazing study that looked at to see, how do CRMs affect business? It's hard to put a tangible idea behind that sometimes. And what they found was that a well, and this again, going back to what you said about data, this is only gonna work if you have good data and people putting in that data, but a well CRM can boost sales by 29%.

29 % and think about that. I mean if you're increasing your revenue 15-20 % each year with whatever effort you're doing whether it be marketing etc. Just having a well-organized CRM can do that effortlessly on its own. It could also generate 50 % more sales ready leads and the often the time that we see that most impactful is when salespeople get frustrated. The marketing is putting all this effort to generate the lead and sales is trying to close the lead and yet it's not happening.

And it's because people aren't being educated. They're not being nurtured. They're not being brought through that process efficiently through their CRM. And the biggest thing, and this is why I made the transition probably the most impactful reason, is that a CRM can actually lower your marketing by almost 30%. And you might say, well, Jason, like how is that even possible? And what's the reason behind that is because it's fundamentally this one thing. And when the one thing is that Brent,

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (05:16.891)
people are not tying together their marketing effort to their sales effort effectively, right? So they're generating leads and they're like, great, our Facebook did great, our trade show did awesome, we got all these leads, but are they qualified? And even if they're qualified, how many of those turned into a fruitful new customer and what was the revenue generated? And so when you have that disconnect, you just keep burning and burning marketing dollars with actually knowing how effective they are. And that's ultimately in a...

longer maybe version than you were looking for why I got excited to get into this world of serum

Brent Peterson (05:51.372)
Yeah, so back up one step. Let's just explain to what people what CRM means and how that what that means in their day to day business.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (05:59.983)
Yeah, so my definition of a CRM is three primary factors. So one is you're gonna have the data, right? So it's the contacts, the accounts, the companies, the people that you are selling to. It could also be your vendors. It could be your strategic partners, right? Everybody in your world should be in the CRM in some classification. The second element is email marketing.

we often see that email marketing sometimes siloed and you're using a MailChimp or a constant contact or you're doing something else, yet you have a CRM that's capable of doing the email marketing. And so the benefit of that is, you know, people look at open rates and click rates and they might look at that report and superficially say, okay, we're good, we're at a 50 % open rate or a 5%, 10 % click rate. But you wanna know is what is happening on the website as a result of that email going out.

Are people coming to the website? Are they looking at your videos, your content? And having your email funnel through your CRM is a huge uptick for the sales team because now the sales team has access to the data of the email engagement. And then third piece is sales. So every CRM should have a sales component. Think of it as a visual sales funnel or a dashboard to see where all your deals are at, what stage they're at, conversion rates.

And again tying that what I said before all that sales data back to the marketing data. So that's what a CRM should be. Now there are many companies out there that say they're a CRM but they're really a project management software. So you know look for those three things if you don't already have a CRM to find out if it's a good fit for you guys.

Brent Peterson (07:40.457)
And is there, I mean, I think every business should have some sort of CRM. you mentioned HubSpot, and HubSpot is free, right? You could use their CRM portion for free, and they make their money by bolting on all the other tools that you can use. But everyone should have a CRM. There's no reason why you shouldn't, right?

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (07:45.03)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (07:53.4)
Sure. Yeah.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (07:58.361)
Absolutely, I mean, in fact, I built something about a year ago. It's actually using interconnected Google spreadsheets. It's called Profit Path. I'll talk more about where to find that later on. But what I found is that there are some people that are just either hesitant or nervous. And even if it's free, the idea of software to them is overwhelming, right? Because they're going from notepads or simple spreadsheet to something that's more elaborate.

And so this tool that I built is just interconnected spreadsheets that they're familiar with, but built in a more robust way that provides reporting and actionable data. So yes, I agree, but I will say at the same breath Brent it's amazing how many companies we start working with that have been in business for decades that don't have any CRM and everything's still on paper and there's paper contracts, there's folders, little folders, right? And filing cabinets of information.

So it's quite amazing how many still are behind the 8-Ball and getting up to speed with the technology that's available.

Brent Peterson (08:59.545)
A lot of businesses at scale would have something like NetSuite as their maybe financial management and some warehouse management. How important is it to then maybe not use NetSuite for your CRM but have that component, that additional component to beautify and enrich your customer data?

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (09:08.485)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (09:21.177)
Yeah, we do a lot of work with manufacturers and other organizations that have ERP systems, which usually for those that don't know ERP, it's usually for, like you said, for accounting, for quoting, for onboarding project management fulfillment. Those tools are often designed to do one thing really well. They're not designed to track your marketing. They're not designed to bring leads through a process before a quote is created, right?

they're only meant to be putting in data once a quote is ready to be created. And so you need something before that, like a layer before, to help you keep that organization. But you bring up a good point that a lot of these companies that have those tools are not integrating them. So even though they might have the quoting tool or whatever you have for accounting, it's not integrated to the CRM. So now you have two separate data points, which

We could talk about a little bit later the value of connecting that data, but that's also a misstep that people don't realize the potential of the power that that could have for a company.

Brent Peterson (10:26.252)
We talk about all these systems too and there's a concept called the single source of truth, right? So you want to have one place where you're modifying your records and hopefully that place is in your CRM. Talk a little bit about how customers can really get split up in different softwares and different pieces that maybe aren't best suited for the role of a CRM.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (10:31.408)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (10:51.535)
Yeah, so I mean, think some of the negatives are so I'll give you a quick example. About a year and a half ago, we started working with a pool construction company selling pools, hot tubs, you know, all different things in that industry. And they have a service department. The service department is pretty big outside of the sales department. And what we quickly realized when we were onboarding them and talking about the strategy, the CRM is that service was not going to be using the CRM because they had their own software system.

A lot of it was repeat business. A lot of it had to do with scheduling, parts management, things that the CRM wasn't good at doing or capable of doing as well as the software they had. So it was a conscious decision to say, okay, the service department is gonna use the software they have. We are gonna move some data out of it into the CRM to try to upsell and cross-sell. For example, you did your pool closing last year. Maybe you also need, you know.

some other services, you need a pool cover, right, that the sales team can sell you, etc. And so there is definitely a line to consider of what should be in the CRM and what shouldn't be. And that really comes down to understanding how a business operates. You know, the one fundamental thing, Brent, that often people are, I think, I wouldn't say pressured into, but maybe forced into, is a better way to say it, is they buy a piece of software

And it doesn't really fit their business. doesn't fit the way they do business, right? But they bought it because their friend John is a CEO at another company and they love the software and they're like, hey, you got to get it. It's amazing. And so they get it. But then they realize, okay, now we have to change the way we do things. We have to change and configure our business to fit into this software. And that's the last thing you should be doing. You really want a piece of software that's going to compliment what you do today, but essentially make it more efficient and more productive.

Brent Peterson (12:43.168)
Yeah, I that's a really good point too, because there's different types of software for different levels of company. And sometimes an enterprise level software can be overwhelming to a user. You most of our listeners are, you know, they'd have some employees and they have a certain amount of revenue. And if they haven't explored the idea of having that single source of truth for their clients, where's the best place to start for something like that?

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (12:48.432)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (13:07.813)
Well, usually it comes down to if they have nothing, which is often the case, it usually comes down to their accounting software. That's usually where you'll find the most accurate information, but there's a caveat and a huge problem there. Most CRMs use an email address as the unique identifier of a contact. And so if you're relying on your data from your QuickBooks or SAP software, whatever you might have,

the email address might be the bookkeeper, it might be the accounts payable person. It may not actually be the customer or the person that you're talking to. And so that data may not even be in your accounting software. It may be living in Mary's Outlook, right, in her address book. And so that's usually the big challenge is do you even have the data? And then how good is the data, right, is the next step? You know, a lot of people just have that

sitting around like that, know, virtual or physical file cabinet of information that hasn't been looked at and it's just sitting there with, you know, six inches of dust on it. And so, you know, when we start talking to companies and I'm sure some of the companies today listening can relate, you're like, oh man, I remember that customer we had two years ago. They were great. They were like our top third customer. What happened to them? Well, why did they stop working with us? All right. And you might be able to go back and to rekindle that relationship.

Maybe there's something new that you have to offer them that you weren't selling at that point, that's why they left. And so we often tell people that the data you have of old customers can certainly be rekindled and is worth reviewing and synthesizing to figure out, can we go back and try to upsell, cross-sell and rebuild those relationships and maintain the relationships we already have. And so you and I both know Brent, it's a lot more cost effective.

to sell to the existing customer base you have or had, versus spending dollars trying to find brand new leads that never even heard about your business.

Brent Peterson (15:13.354)
Yeah, that's such a good point. And even having accounting at company.com as your last time you've corresponded with them and you don't realize that the maybe the procurement manager, the salesperson that you were trying to sell to is not even in that QuickBooks system. Talk a little bit about scoring. I know that in the beginning you kind of mentioned something around scoring and making sure that they're qualified and there's a different levels of qualifications, right? Give us a little idea of that.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (15:20.719)
Right.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (15:43.675)
So any salesperson is going to know what are the, I'll say the green flags, not the red flags, the green flags that would indicate somebody's intent to buy is getting higher and higher. They're requesting a proposal, they're saying, okay, now I'm gonna review the proposal on my management team, or they go into your pricing page on your website, right? So there could be any number of things that would be indicators. The best visual I like to give is somebody walking into a car dealership.

The person walking into a car dealership that just looks around for five, 10 minutes and leaves is not as high of a value of a buyer as the person that's there sits in three different cars, gets behind the seat, is talking to a salesperson. That person has a lot more interest and is showing the signals that they might be in the market more than the person that is the window shopper. And so a good CRM is gonna help you distinguish between the window shoppers.

And the people that are trying on the different sweatshirts, right? Trying on the different, you know, the different cars, giving you the signal to say, okay, I have seven hours of my day, six hours of my day to sell. Where am I going to focus my time? A lot of salespeople just go through a list randomly. They're like, okay, I'm starting at the letter B today in the alphabet. This is who I'm calling, right? Or they're given a list of phone numbers and they're cold calling randomly with no rhyme or reason.

a good CRM is going to say, are the people that are most likely to pick up the phone, most likely to respond to your email, most likely in that buying mode where they're ready to make a decision. And so what you mentioned before, lead scoring is a common term in tools like HubSpot that are more robust, where you could actually track those signals and you can say, okay, somebody goes to our pricing page, we're gonna give them 50 points. But if they go to our blog,

that's a lower level interest, we'll give them five points. And so we help teams create that formula so we can identify what are those trigger points that are more likely to indicate they're ready to have a conversation or ready to buy.

Brent Peterson (17:47.435)
Yeah, that's, mean, super in this get you really can really get a way down and in the details, but that's where the magic is right in those details and some of that little legwork, especially if you have a big database of users. And I like what you said too about past users. If you have if you have clients that have churned, you know, making sure that if you have a new, if you have a new offering that you can offer that get, get back to them and tell them, Hey, we've got something new now. Maybe you should try this out.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (18:17.637)
Yeah. And that's also, I think it's, it's a part, psychological, hurdle that some businesses have. They're like, we don't want to bother them. Or maybe they didn't like us or, and I always say, kind of get past that, right? Like you don't know, right? So unless you really know, there's no harm in reaching out, sending an email, making a phone call, connecting on social media, whatever it might be, you know, going and seeing them at a trade show to, to just figure out, is there an opportunity here or is there not?

Brent Peterson (18:48.592)
Jason we have like a month left or a little more than a month before Black Friday Cyber Monday What what kind of advice are you giving people to prepare themselves for? For the holidays if they're in retail

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (19:01.755)
Well, I think in retail, there's a few things. mean, everybody's looking for the bargain. Of course, that's like the obvious thing. You know, what kind of deal am I going to get? But I think it's also about how to capitalize on that for after Black Friday, right? You know, some businesses actually lose money during Black Friday because they're heavily discounted, trying to drive volume, get revenue in, you know, before the end of maybe a fiscal year if it ends in, you know, in December. And so I think what to me, the strategy should be is not only do how we get people in the door,

But what do we do with that data that we collect going forward into Q1 and Q2 of next year? And so when you're getting people, if you're in e-commerce and retail, to come in for a Black Friday, know, sale, what have you, get more information about them, you know, not just maybe their email address, see if you can find some more other information that could be helpful for you, for your business. And that could be any number of different demographics or different points of interest.

but that's where I would value because then you can take that data and say, here's all the people that checked off this box or this other box. We're now going to have a marketing strategy that we already know we're talking about now in October. We already know that we're going to launch this in January, February, and we're going to retarget the people that have opted in and bought something in November, December from us. So that's what I would be looking at is how to utilize the data you're going to collect from Black Friday into future marketing efforts.

Brent Peterson (20:26.752)
Yeah, and I think that idea of having that volume to collect that data is such an important time of the year, and that's when you should be making sure that you're putting it somewhere, right? Even if you don't have the CRM yet, that you can put it into the CRM later and make sure you're using it in the future.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (20:44.689)
Yeah, one quick thing to add to that, and I think this kind of would flow over to Black Friday type discussion, but certainly this is something that should be applied for everybody listening today on their website. There are so many times I go to a website and when you go to a contact form or to download an ebook or whatever it is, they never ask you, how did you hear about us? And if they do, it's a text box. That's a huge no-no. You want to have a dropdown that lists all of your marketing channels.

If you do radio, radio should be a choice. If you do home shows, home show be a choice. If you do webinars, webinars a choice. Everything you're doing to build brand exposure should be a choice in that menu. And it's okay if it's 10, 15 choices, because you want to know what captivated them, what brought them into the door. And you can use that to then refine your marketing going forward. So many companies are not even thinking about that obvious, super simple thing that literally takes two minutes to add to your form on your website.

So if anything to walk away from, that's definitely one to implement if you don't have it already.

Brent Peterson (21:49.664)
That's perfect. Jason, we have a few minutes left in the podcast. As we close things out, I give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug about anything they'd like. What would you like to plug today?

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (21:58.767)
Well, I like to say that, you know, I'm here to educate, to help people figure out if the CRM they have is efficient, if it's working, if it's doing what they think it's doing. If they don't have the right tech stack, or they don't think they do, I'm happy to do what we call a fit assessment, where we'll come in, free your charge, evaluate what your needs are, make recommendations. Everybody that is listening today, you can go to afterthelead.com. So that's afterthelead.com.

on there you'll find access to that fit assessment. You also find an ebook that I wrote, Brent, which is called "The Blueprint For Lead Nurturing". So many companies are not properly nurturing their leads and this blueprint gives you the step-by-step instructions on how to do that with any platform. Even if you have something basic like a constant contact or MailChimp, you can still do some of that nurturing through tools like that. And also all of my social is on there as well. So if you want to connect with me,

Mostly I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn, but I'm happy to connect with your listeners and just, you know, start a dialogue.

Brent Peterson (23:01.184)
That's great, Jason. I'll make sure I'll get those into the show notes. Jason Kramer is the founder CEO of Cultivate? Cultivize, sorry. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here today.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (23:08.881)
Cultivize That's OK.

Jason Kramer, Yoda Of CRM (23:15.409)
Thank you,